Pitbull 214 Podcast | Ep. 5, Col (ret) Herman Cole, Vietnam Experience

One of the things I enjoy most about this podcast is getting the chance to sit down with veterans who helped shape the people around them.

Colonel Herman Cole is one of those people for me.

In this episode, we talked about his journey from Tuskegee University to serving as a combat engineer during Vietnam, the leadership lessons he learned along the way, and the challenges he faced during a very different time in our military's history.

What stood out to me wasn't just his military career.

It was his commitment to service long after the uniform came off.

The older I get, the more I appreciate veterans like Colonel Cole who took the time to mentor others, share their experiences, and help the next generation find their way.

There are a lot of lessons in this conversation. Not just for veterans, but for anyone who believes leadership is about serving others.

I think you'll enjoy this one.

Thank you for listening to the Pitbull214 Podcast, where veterans, service, resilience, and real conversations come first.

If this episode helped you, inspired you, or made you think differently, please share it with another veteran, friend, or family member.

Follow, rate, and review the podcast to help us reach more people who need these stories and resources.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Well, good day and welcome to Pitfall 214, a podcast for veterans, their families, and friends, neighbors, and anyone who cares about vets. I am Rick Perales, retired Air Force vet, and I'm pleased to be your host for this program. I first must thank everyone out there for helping me get the word out. We're starting to get a little momentum. I was told at the beginning this was going to take some time, and it is, but we're building a little mem a little momentum. We're getting some more subscribers and followers, and that's always good. So thank you for that. Thank you for helping me help us help our vets. Before we get started with this wonderful program, I'm excited about the guest, and we'll talk about him in a bit. I I must say that we have just initiated Operation Epic Fury in Iran. And it looks like it's been a very successfully planned operation, and it is going as we might expect, but we are going to lose lives. I just want to take this first moment to thank all the troops out there, the ones that are in the middle of this conflict, and the ones that are behind the scenes that are doing what it takes for us to be successful, for our troops to get out there, do their job, and get home safely to their families after we're done. I want to thank them. I want to send my condolences out to the troops we've already lost and any other innocent bystanders out there. And I just want everyone out there to, regardless of your politics, be supportive of our men and women. They are doing the right thing. We'll send our prayers to them as this thing continues, because it's not going to be brief. It's going to take, I'm sure, weeks, if not months, period. So God bless our troops. Let's get back to the show. I wanted to first say that thank you to a Lieutenant General retired Dick Reynolds. He put out a notice on his social media to emphasize and to get some exposure and visibility to Pitbull 214 podcast. He has a very extensive social media network, has done a great job. He's a fighter pilot, a good friend, and I thank him for that. Actually, he's going to be one of my uh guests. I'm going to interview him in the near future. And he's like me and many other of our colleagues who continues to serve. As a matter of fact, he is in the middle of a program that's called Air Camp, comparable to Space Camp, but it's for flying. And it's going to be right here. It is right here in the Miami Valley at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. And they have just taken taken on a large construction project to build this in between buildings at the National Museum of the United States Air Force. What a great undertaking and what a great person. You'll be uh you'll be excited to hear from him. Also, a thank you to Jerry Lynn Maples from Blue Star Family. She also put out a notice on all her social media to get folks to listen to and to see what they think about Pitbull 214. Thank you, Jerry Lynn. And we're likely to have Jerry Lynn as a guest too in the near future. Let me say before we get to our guests, again, the success of this program depends on you as much as me. We've got to get this out. It's going slowly, and I'm told it's going to go slowly, but I want to get it out to the vets out there that could use the programs. We've got four programs in the queue right now. I've got good episode, good expert, subject matter experts to talk to us, but I just got to make sure we're getting it out to the right audience, and that is, of course, whether it's through family members, friends, neighbors, to the vets and get them to use some of these resources and services and programs that are out there specifically for them. Not a gift, it's what they deserve, what they have earned. So thank you for helping me do that. Any suggestions you have, any comments you have, of course, I'm more than willing to listen to those. You'll see my contact information at the bottom of the screen as always, and at the end of the program when we do credits. So for today's program, I'm so excited. We have a dear friend of mine, he was my mentor for most of my career, actually, helped me with getting three of my assignments, and I served under him for two of them. His name is retired Colonel Herman Cole. He's a civil engineer like me. He served in Vietnam. He is a storyteller, he is funny, he is entertaining, he's 80, and he just keeps on ticking. I am so proud to call him my friend, and I think you folks will really enjoy what he has to share with us about his time being in Vietnam. So with that, we're going to go to break and well, welcome back to Pitfull 214 Podcast, a podcast designed for veterans, their family, their friends, and really anyone that cares about veterans. As I talked about in the introduction, I've got a very special guest today with us. Actually, he's that guy that every military member cherishes that mentors him, takes you on, and helps you understand the ways and helps you to be successful. And that was Herman Cole to me. As a second lieutenant, he was a young major and took me under his wing at Space Division. And he and his wife Joyce invited me in dinners and like one of the family, and I can never repay them for that. But I've got him here not only because he's my mentor, because he's a dear friend, but because he has a story to share. Herm, as a as a second lieutenant, Herm was in Vietnam. And, you know, we talk about World War II, there's very few vets left alive. Korean War, they're going fast. And even Vietnam War, they're going fast. And we're losing their stories. So this isn't so much an organization, a resource, a services that I try to provide my veteran brothers and sisters. This is the war story portion of it that I promised you. So I'm going to ask Herm to talk a little bit about some episodes that went on in Vietnam, because within each story he tells is a story in and of itself about what they went through and what it was like in that climate when they served in Vietnam. So first, Herman, thank you so much for being with us today.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Hey, my pleasure, Rick. And I I just wanted to correct something you said. You said that we were friends for over 20 years. We've been friends for over 35 years. Because when I you try you're trying to stay young, I know that's what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah, that might that might that might end up on the editing floor, by the way. Uh yeah, that that's who I've got here. Okay, 30 years. What I'm gonna ask Herman to do, and he's always been a storyteller, we've always enjoyed that, is to tell us a little bit about where he came from, uh, how he came from South Carolina, uh uh through school and and to service. Herman, would you share that with us first, please?

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Oh, certainly. I, you know, I was brought up in the segregated South, Charleston, South Carolina. So I was in second grade, and my aunt was a school teacher. She taught third grade, and she took her class on a field trip to Charleston Air Force Base. So here I am, a young, what, eight years old? And I was accustomed to being in a segregated society. But once we got inside the gates of Charleston Air Force Base, things were a little bit different. I saw Air Force, black Air Force pilots, black Air Force officers, I saw people together, living together. So all of a sudden, in my little young eight-year-old mind, I was like, man, this is what I want to do. I got to get out of Charleston and join the military. So my whole elementary school, high school, I felt that no matter where I went to school, they had to have Air Force ROTC, and I wanted to be an architect. So those were the two requirements that I had for college. So consequently, at that time, everything was segregated. So there were not many choices for me in the South. So I ended up getting a scholarship from Tuskegee University, which also had Air Force ROTC and architecture. So from there, I graduated from Tuskegee in the Air Force, and their infinite wisdom thought that this guy was really, really smart, so they're going to send him to graduate school. So I go to graduate school and I get my graduate degree in architecture. I'm graduating from graduate school in June of 1970, which was quite some time ago. However, in April of 1970, I get orders, and my orders said, Republic of South Vietnam, Red Horse. Well, I was pilot qualified and I was concerned I wanted to be a pilot. Well, I go over to Maxwell Air Force Base and I say, hey guys, I'm supposed to go to pilot training. They like, oh, Air Force needs you in in Vietnam. Just poor little me. You know, I'm the one they need in Vietnam. So I go to Vietnam as a first lieutenant. However, I am green as grass. I know nothing.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Let me interrupt you there. Explain to the viewers what Red Horse is.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Red horse, and I'm going to tell you what that acronym means, and I'm trying with my dementia and everything that I have right now. It's rapid engineering deployment, heavy operational readiness squadron engineering. Excellent. Yeah, I did it. And Red Horse is actually a it's a we're a combat engineering unit. If anyone's familiar with the CBs from the Navy, it's synonymous. The two are synonymous as being the same. So basically in Vietnam, we were doing combat engineering. We would go out and build buildings and bridges, and as a young lieutenant, I decided I wanted to be gun-ho. So anytime my boss would say, who wants to volunteer to take this conveyor to convoy to the place so we could do construction? I was the one that always raised my hands. I want to share a couple of my Vietnam experiences. And Rick told me that it had to be limited to 20 minutes. Kind of hard for me to live it, limit the life that I've had to 20 minutes, but I'm going to do it. So I was a young first lieutenant that didn't know anything about anything, but would volunteer for anything. So Nampan, which is the capital of Cambodia, their airport was completely demolished by the VC. So a lot of things were going on, a lot of moving parts. So I was brought in and I said I would go. So I had to put on civilian clothes, give up my military ID card, and they said if something happened, they would pull you back across the border in Vietnam. So my wife would still have my benefits. So I'm all excited about going. We go to the airport. It's Air America, which was CIA Silver C-123. We get on the airplane, and I'm like, oh man, I'm just, I'm gonna be a war hero, you know. And I'm sure you young guys don't know who Audie Murphy was, but he was a guy during World War II. He became an actor. So we go, we land in Nom Pen, and man, I'm like, man, we're special. I'm James Bond, you know, and we land, we go to walk downtown, and there were more US forces there than you could shake a stick at. So I wasn't as special as I thought I was. And we did the evaluation and we came back. And there that just can I do two more stories, Rick. This is hey, I invited you. It's your time. So I'm running a convoy, and uh no, I'm not really running the convoy. My chief master sergeant's running the convoy. No need for me to say I'm the boss. So I'm on a Jeep with an M60 machine gun in the back. I've got a 38 and I've got an M16. We get under attack, and you know, I am oh my god, I am like, holy crap, what's happening to me? I jump out of the Jeep, I've turned my M16 up and I just put it on fully automatic and unload my clip. My E9, Chief Master Sergeant, turns to me and said, LT, what you gonna do now? You got no more bullets. And he had a bandolier across and he gave me one of his. And I said, Chief, when we get back to the base, please don't tell anybody what I did. And guess what? He told everybody what I did. So I my nickname was Quick Draw. And then one more, one more story. No, we got yeah, go ahead, please. Okay, this is another incident I'm learning a lot about you that I didn't even know. I'm supposedly a convoy commander, like I said, the chief master sergeant was actually the convoy commander. So we go, and all of a sudden the convoy stops, and I go up to the front, and their Korean was Koreans were in Vietnam with us, and they had this lady on the bridge, and the lady was holding a baby in her arms, and they were questioning her. One of the Korean troops took the baby and held the baby in his arms, and they pushed the women, woman into the water, and they just let loose and they killed her. Then, to my amazement, they took the baby and threw the baby in the water, and then they blew the baby away. So I walked up to the Korean lieutenant, I think he was a lieutenant, and I said, Why did you do that? He said, What are we gonna do with the baby? And I thought that mindset, because the whole time I was in Vietnam, they said the Viet Cong, the one group of people that they did not want to mess with was the ROC, the Royal, you know, the Korean Army. Because those guys just they do what they want to do. And that was, I mean, those those memories have stuck with me throughout my life. And that's why I can so vividly describe them, because they happened and they were for real. And, you know, when I came back from Vietnam, I was walking down the street. I had a layover in San Francisco, and I was walking down the street with my uniform on with a friend of mine who was an army guy, and uh the words that we recall, and I mean, it was horrible. And we got spit on, we called baby killers. So it was it was pretty bad. But however, I did not have to subject myself to that for a very long time because when in Vietnam, you got what was called a consecutive overseas tour. So I was not stationed in the States again for five years because I spent five years being stationed in London, England, which was a great assignment. My fellow Vietnam veterans really it was really bad, and things were really bad for us as far as name calling and those kinds of things up until 9-11. After 9-11, I think there was a better appreciation of the military. So consequently, that was when everybody started wearing things like this Vietnam veteran and wearing a Vietnam veteran hat. And people actually would walk up to you and say, Thank you for your service, which I mean, really at that time it just felt so good for someone to say it because it took so many years for that to happen.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Yeah, you know, it's such a small gesture by our citizens, but it really does. We're not asking for thank yous, but it is nice to hear that once in a while, that that they understand and appreciate what we've done. Herman, tell us a little bit about the relationship amongst your troops. You were a black lieutenant commanding many, many whites from all over the country, and and it was back in the 60s and early 70s. How did that, how did that, how did everyone get along?

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Well, it was very difficult in Vietnam because what basically happened was they were drafting everybody that they everybody that was breathing. And you had a group of black guys from the black ghetto, a group of white guys from the white ghetto. They had never been together. They didn't understand that a human being is a human being. So consequently, there were numerous unreported race riots in Vietnam at the time. So immediately when I got to Benoit, which was a huge base outside of Saigon, I was the only black officer as a first lieutenant on that base. And my boss said, Herman, you're gonna be on the Human Relations Council. I didn't even know what that was. So that eventually evolved into what we had in the military as the social actions. I had an incident that was very different. I had a chief master sergeant who worked for me from Mississippi, who was just, he treated me like I was the best person in the whole wide world. And I had a lot of respect for this guy. Well, my young black troops would come up to me and said, LT, so you ought to see how this guy reacts in the dormitory. So he walks up and down the floor once he gets drunk and is using the N-word completely over and over again and berating the black troops. So I'm like, man, I can't believe he's doing that because of the way he treats me. So I went in the dorm. I said, I can't go to my boss with hearsay. I said, I need to experience this myself. So I went to the dorm and kind of hid in one of the dorm rooms, and I actually witnessed this myself. He did not know I was there. So I was conflicted because here I am, a first lieutenant. I'm not sure the interworkings of the military, so I'm not sure how this is gonna go over. So I go to my boss, my my squadron commander, who was in a white 06, and I said, Sir, here's my situation. I explained to him exactly what had happened, and he went out, and that chief master sergeant ended up getting an Article 15, which was for my first one of my first experiences in the military, it just it set the tone for the remainder of my 26 years in the military. And I thought, you know, I'm like, if this white guy in 1970 can have my back, I think the military is where I really want to be and where I need to be.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Wow. Wow. So we're getting close, and I know you have a hundred more stories that would it's just they're wonderful stories, but let's fast forward to today. Looking back on your experience and the spitting and the the lack of gratitude from your own country that sent you there, uh, what are your thoughts now? Where are you now with your Vietnam experience?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Well, you know, I think that you know, oftentimes people I ask, would I do this again? Would I join the military? Definitely. I would join the military, put in as many years as I could. Luckily, I was able to put in 26. And it was such a wonderful experience for me. And uh it molded me. Going to Vietnam as my first job assignment was something that molded me into what I am today. I was sent down to a base called Bentui, walked into the base. I asked my boss, he said, I want you to be the detachment commander. I didn't even know how to spell detachment. Okay. So I go down to Bentui. Yeah, I go down to Bentui and he I said, Well, who's been running it? He said, There's an E9 that's been running it for four months. And I'm like, and you sending me down there. He said, Yes. You go down and you take over. So I go down there, I walk in the room, chief stands to attention, sir. I'm so happy to see you here. I said, Chief, sit down. I said, I don't know nothing. I wanted to use a curse word, but I decided not to.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

I said, I don't know anything. And I said, I'm under your tutelage. For the next six months, I ran that. Well, I didn't run it, the chief ran it, but under his tutelage. And when I came back to my squadron, my boss says, Herman, you did good. I was wanting to understand how you were going to react down there with the chief. And he said, You know, the chief even called me and said, Man, you sent the best guy in the world down there. I'm like, Who's he talking about? You can't be talking about me. It was a good learning experience for me to understand how organizations work. And my concept, my whole life, has been to surround myself with people that are way smarter than me. And that's why Rick and I got along so well together. From Los Angeles Air Force Station to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Patterson. Always wanted him with me because he was smart. Quick one. Rick worked for me. And when we got to Wright Patterson Air Force Base, my son, who graduated from the Air Force Academy, was deferred for pilot training. And guess who he worked for? Rick Corales. Things go around sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Small world and good people. We're running out of time, but there's two things. Do you connect with your colleagues from Vietnam at all? Have you seen them in any form or format?

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Well, like I said, you know, we went on that on a flight. Okay. 39 Vietnam veterans and two Korean veterans who were in their 90s. And, you know, I didn't think too much of it. They ran out of World War II veterans, so now they need Vietnam veterans. We go, Boeing rented a 737, took us up to DC. We visited all the monuments. We got the fire hose treatment leaving Melbourne. We got the fire hose treatment coming into Baltimore. And, you know, I was excited. It was nice seeing some of my comrades, and we swapped war stories and probably embellished some a little bit. And but when we got back to Melbourne and we walked out into the terminal, there were over a thousand people there greeting us. Welcome home, hugs, smiles, roses. I walked off with a bunch of roses, and this was the type of welcome that I did not receive in 1971. It took me to 2025 to have that welcome home. And I don't think out of the 39 hardened old Vietnam veterans, I don't think there was a dry eye because there was a portal for us to walk through. There were people on both sides just welcoming us home. I mean, it was Herm, let me say, I'm ready to cry.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

I'm ready to cry. I mean, it was just a wonderful thing. Okay, one more thing, Herm. The reason I want to do this was to kind of, for all those that didn't experience Vietnam, for them to kind of experience through you with your stories. I think you gave a good 20-minute summary of some of the activities and the climate over there. Let's fast forward to where we are today. You, like me, we're not out of gas. Service is important to us. And we both got into politics. I'm out now, but you're still in. You're the vice mayor of Titusville. Congratulations for that. But just give me a minute about service after service. What makes you thrive doing this?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Well, you know, I've always been one that believed in giving service. When I was a senior in high school, I have a newspaper article where I ran the March Dimes program and we raised more money than any high school in the city of Charleston. I was the president of my senior class. And when I arrived in Titusville in 1998, I decided that I wanted to serve my community. I had stuff to do. I was working at Kennedy Space Center, and I felt that the first thing I did was join the Rotary. I joined the Rotary, which is service above sell. And from that, everything else just expanded from that. I felt I did I'm on like three or four different boards, and I tell people I'm on these non-paying boards where it's all volunteer and decided to get involved in politics because I still feel that I have a lot more to give. Next month, I turned 80 years old, but I still inside I don't feel 80. Up here, I feel 16. So I'm gonna go as long as I can and give back as much as I can to my community because of where I am. I I wouldn't have gotten where I am today had it not been for the people that I surrounded myself with, the smart people that helped me along the way. So there is no way that I would have gotten to where I am without the help of mentors, those helping me along the way and molding me into the person I am today. And hopefully, I've got a few more years to give before I go to the nursing home.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

I have no doubt. I and I hesitate to do this, got one more question I got to ask, and we're way over time. So a lot of this isn't gonna make it in the final product. But if you have advice, what would you tell our young officers or our young military people that are listening to? What would your advice be to them now that you're on the other side of that?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

My advice would be to always help people. It it just comes back to you. I started off helping people, people help me. What you give is also given back to you, and that's what I feel. That's why I am continually giving. Getting involved in the communities, you meet so many people, and when you become a volunteer, you meet people that are very, very successful, and they help you. So always feel that you want to give back to your community because your community has given so much to you, you know. So I I just I really believe in that very sincerely.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

That's that's a perfect ending. Herm, I thank you so very much. It's always good to talk to you. I gotta get down there and go golfing with you again sometime soon. Herm's got a he's got a great family too. One son is a businessman making lots of money to throw him in a good nursing home. And him and Joyce and his other son actually flew um Air Force Two for the vice president, and they're both outstanding young men, as you would expect. And I wanted Herm to talk a little bit about giving after because I think we as vets, as we get older, some of us don't realize how much we have to give back. Our world needs us, probably now more than ever. And giving back to vets is what this program's about. There are so many ways to do that. So uh Herm, again, thank you. God bless. Okay, we'll talk later, Herm. Thank you. Well, I trust you weren't disappointed. I told you he's funny and he's a storyteller, and I'm sure that Herman didn't disappoint anyone. He is an amazing person. I'll tell you what, I didn't uh say it soon earlier in the show, but he has an amazing family. Two sons, one actually uh went to the Air Force Academy and flew Air Force II, the other one is in banking and investment and making lots of money, and his wife Joyce is uh just I can't say enough about her. She is engaging, she's beautiful, and she is the athlete of the family, no question about that. So, anyways, I thank you, Herm, for being on my show, and I look forward to getting down to Florida soon and maybe we can play some golf. So, with that, a couple of things before I close the show. I have some exciting news that I'm not quite ready to give you all of it, but it looks like I've got a potential collaboration with the foundation. I'm working through the details of that, and I will share more maybe the next program, but uh it will allow me to classify uh this program, Pitbull 214 Podcast, within his foundation, which is also a foundation to help people, but not solely for veterans. I will share more about that later. Again, I want to say please give me your suggestions, your comments. I've incorporated so many recommendations from people out there that I know and I don't know, and I am still learning. So I welcome anything that you can give me. And let me tell you, my next show, I'm gonna have a good friend. I have a lot of friends, what can I say? Larry Drawn. Larry is a Marine and he got severely injured in Afghanistan. Came back, he lost both legs, and he lost a majority of one arm. He is an amazing person, and he's gonna share a story with us. I think the theme with Larry is that he is so positive. He has a family, he's a proud Marine, he'd do it again. He plays sledding hockey, he's a good golfer. I've golfed with him, and I think he's just got a real good story that I'd love to share with everybody. So I hope that everyone could join me for episode five with Larry. Before I leave today, I'd just like to say again, God bless our troops, be with them, help them to accomplish their mission and get home safely to their families. I ask for all my listeners out there to be very supportive of our troops that they're doing what they need to do, and it'll make our country safer, I'm confident. With that, that's all I have today. God bless you, God bless our troops and you're gonna be able to do that.